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Indie Publishing: Some Thoughts

13 February 2008

There’s a pretty interesting discussion going on in list serve world regarding small presses, independent presses, and self publishing. This last item really is the sorest point of contention, given the apparent stigma of “vanity publishing.” I don’t know so much what the difference is between “vanity publishing” and doing DIY. IS there a difference? How is each term defined?

One point being discussed is publishing houses and prestige, and under what circumstances is it important to be published by a prestigious publisher. I wonder how prestige is defined or determined, first of all. Still, the part of this discussion that’s most interesting to me is this: if your intent as a poet is to get your work out into the world, to reach your perceived readership, audience, and/or communities, then whether or not your publisher is prestigious should not be so important (in grad school, one of my professors said to me that whether a publisher had an effective distribution system in place was more important). If a major part of your publishing career revolves around university tenure, then landing book contracts with a prestigious publisher is more of a concern. But not all poets operate within that system.

Again, I am conveying all of these discussion points still unclear on the definition of “prestige” and “prestigious.” For now I am assuming it has something to do with not being DIY, certainly not being “vanity press.”

I wonder whether it’s about editorial filters, mechanisms by which your work is processed through someone else’s machine? I am not trying to say that we don’t need others — colleagues, mentors — to read our work, aid us in any radical revision, or in the very least clarifying any muddled spots, refining or fine-tuning or polishing our work, all this after we’re certain we have publishable, full length manuscripts.

Certainly, there are poets who adamantly refuse any editorial advice or input, claiming their work to be exactly as it should be. I can’t really say anything about these poets. While I wholeheartedly believe in hearing the editorial advice of trusted colleagues and mentors, I do not believe in allowing others to determine your voice for you, or allowing others to coerce your voice into their voice.

As well, I distinguish “prestigious” and “nationally recognized,” as I’ve discussed before, e-world is enabling us to traverse local community.

As well again, I question whether it’s the sheer quality of manuscripts which secures book contracts with publishers of any level of prestige. I am much more apt to believe what is deemed publication worthy has more to do with what is familiar and what is currently vogue, hence its marketability, which is interesting in an industry that is known to not generate much if any profit.

But let’s not polarize the industry into “highly prestigious” versus DIY. Something else that’s being discussed is the independent publisher. A few things I am thinking:

  • Lawrence Ferlinghetti and City Lights Books. Did he not start out publishing his friends, colleagues, and himself. Today, Ferlinghetti’s City Lights Books is an internationally recognized institution, not just of Beat Poetry or San Francisco Poetry, but American Poetry, and even World Poetry.
  • Henry Rollins and 2.13.61. Rollins is also an institution, as far as punk rock is concerned. And so he’s come into the publishing world with cultural and economic capital, and with high profile personal and professional connections.
  • Viggo Mortensen and Perceval Press. Before Viggo became a highly visible and wildly popular Aragorn, I understand he was a regular on the Santa Monica poetry scene, and he’s generally been known as a multi-genre artist, so it makes total sense that he would found this multi-genre arts press.

And regarding major publishers and high profile/celebrity poets, is the poetry they publish any good? Some examples:

(Mind you, the only one of these books I’ve read is Jewel’s, and I didn’t think it was particularly well-written.)

I am just trying to unpack some of the assumptions of prestigious being bigger and better, and independent/small being, well, small.

14 comments

  1. Look — NOBODY is knocking down the door of any poet to publish them. NOBODY. Big press. Small press. NOBODY. Poetry does not sell. The only way to get it into the hands of the public is either to give it to them for free such an online publishers (moi) or to publish them by DIY (moi again). And that is the truth. Rasberry ala Ruth Buzzy.

    Didi Menendez


  2. Hi Didi, so that’s the thing, right? DIY like MiPOesias I see as small press or independent press. That Ferlinghetti presumably started DIY and is now an institution says something to me of how meaningful publishing historically persists as indies in American poetry. I am guessing the origins of James Laughlin’s New Directions are similar enough to Ferlinghetti’s.


  3. For what it’s worth:

    One of my favorite “historical” models in this “debate” is Charles Reznikoff and the Objectivist Press. They (he and Zufofsky and Oppen) published each other in hard bound editions of 300 or so. They’re among my heros in this area.

    Another? Gary Snyder. In the introduction to MARK MY WORDS: Five Emerging Poets (Momotombo Press, 2001), I talk about the effect of being in Snyder’s seminar at UC Davis in 2000 and hearing how RIP RAP got into print the first time. What I took away from Snyder is the following: one way (not the only way since you never got a sense he was creating hierarchies) to start is small and local and for the benefit of close physical friends. That is: we create small limited editions that we give away and/or sell at readings. In short, we start to create a readership, however small.

    My last example, which I talk about in the same Intro: Jim Powell. After having published his first book with University of Chicago Press; his Sappho translations with Farrar Straus & Giroux; after winning a McCarthur; after publishing in such places as The Paris Review and The Threepenny Review….he decided, in the late 90s, to self publish these very plain-looking chapbooks of his new poems under an imprint of his own creation. He did two different titles, each in signed and numbered editions of about 25 or 30, and would sell them for $16. His reasoning?: a CD costs about that; “this is my CD.” And he sold them. I own one of each and they are among my prized small press possesions.


  4. Great post, BJR. I have to agree with Didi. While others have tried to shame me into believing my first collection, Better To Travel, is not worthy since I self-published through iUniverse, the nearly 1,000 copies sold tells me differently. Slow To Burn, put out through the fabulous micro, MetroMania Press, sold all 300 copies in just a year’s time. I am thrilled that folks like Didi, Shanna Compton and Bloof Books and Reb Livingston and No Tell Books are out there and producing beautiful, important collections of poetry. The best stuff I’ve read in the last few years have been from the indie and micro-presses.


  5. from Strunk and White’s “The Elements of Style” (Misused words)

    “Prestigious. An adjective of last resort. It’s in the dictionary but that doesn’t mean you have to use it.”

    It’s definitely an oversued word. The problem is who gets to bestow prestige.

    Walt Whitman, a kosmos, was published by Walter Whitman. The most exciting work has always come from independent publishing and self-publishing.


  6. Hey folks, thanks for some great responses here. Indeed, Lorca’s publishing was bankrolled by Father of Lorca, so there’s also a powerful precedent there.

    Javier, you are right about ones who bestow prestige upon others.

    At any rate, what I hope I’m conveying is that publishers who consistently put out work with integrity can and oftentimes do start “small.”


  7. [...] Ebook = DIY Or Vanity? Indie Publishing: Some Thoughts There’s a pretty interesting discussion going on in list serve world regarding small presses, [...]


  8. Wow… Jewel has a last name?

    A.R. Ammons is another good example of the self-starter. If the vanity thing was good enough for him, it’s good enough for me.


  9. [...] y diwata barbara jane reyes blogs here. on poetics, culture, and community. « Indie Publishing: Some Thoughts Speaking of Indie Publishing, and Speaking of Local Poetry Scene February 14, 2008 [...]


  10. if you’re a good poet and you self-publish,
    you’ll find an audience, as the above
    commentors testify . . .

    but if you’re not, not happens: i put
    all my poetry, every poem I’ve written
    since 1960, on my blog for open access
    with free pdf books for download, but
    all to no avail, no one looks at my blog
    (according to the stats counter) and
    no one downloads my pdf books . . .

    i hope your selfpub activities have a
    more satisfying outcome than mine . . .

    at some point one has to roll over and
    die; geezers like me have no place
    anywhere . . .


  11. Hi Bill, thanks for your comment. I have done DIY chapbooks and broadsides, even handed them out for free to students, with the hopes that the small sample of work I hand out would pique their interest for the book (I’ve done this generally before the release of my books). I don’t know that that really happens: that the folks to whom I give free chapbooks and broadsides eventually go buy the books when they’re available. But in a perfect world, this is how it happens. Thanks again for stopping by.


  12. [...] Knott recently commented here that while he makes all of his work available in pdf format on his blog, that his stat counter [...]


  13. hi! I’m writing an article on independent publishing in the Philippines. I’m at a dead end right now; your post is so far the most interesting and insightful I’ve encountered. Do you have materials which you would recommend for this topic? Books, sites, etc.? It will do me great help. Thanks!


  14. Hello, I actually don’t know anything about independent publishing in the Philippines. Everything I write here, and know about is USA based, where I publish. I am thinking maybe Alfred Yuson, who i a literary figure and who teaches literature at Ateneo may know where to direct you? Also, didn’t (doesn’t) F. Sionil Jose publish La Solidaridad Books? Sorry I can’t be more helpful.


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