Poetics: Various

By now, many of you have read that Billy Collins article over at The Normal Transcript, in which he states:

“One of the reasons people don’t read as much poetry anymore is the fault of the poets,” he said. “It’s not the public’s fault. There’s an awful lot of bad poetry out there. I’d say about 87 percent of the poetry in America isn’t worth reading.”

I think a lot of us enter that space of negativity, and say similarly negative things about our genre, rather than underscoring the poetry we think is awesome, laudable, that which we recommend, teach, forward, support in any way that we can. How is such negativity actually helpful for poetry? How does this statement move people to search actively for good poetry? This is something Oscar and I have been talking about, partially in response to this Collins article, and generally because Haters piss me off.

Apart from the obvious problem of negativity, the problem with Collins not telling tell us who (apart from himself) he believes is worth reading, and the problem of apparently not looking for more and different poetry, is that “transparent” poetry, that for which he advocates, is another way of saying “poetry that is accessible,” which I have discussed on this here blog. “Accessibility” is subjective to certain populations and communities. If the poetry written in our communities falls under the Collins’s category of not transparent poetry, then we are counted among the 87% of poetry he believes is  not worth reading. So fuck that, and fuck him. We need other, more constructive, more critical ways of advocating for the diverse poetries we believe is important and enjoyable.

I realize this isn’t very graceful of me to simply say, “Fuck that, and fuck him,” but I am so sick of poets demeaning audiences and readers with assumptions of their stupidity and dullness, and I am sick of poetry having to be this singular, essentialized thing.

Here is my segue into yesterday’s super dense Pinay Poetics panel at SFSU for the KAPWA Conference. I’m still not sure how we ran out of time, but I am sure each poet who presented did so insightfully, thoughtfully. Some things:

Karen Llagas spoke of coming to identify more clearly the tension of place as experienced and imagined, and then place and self, as an adult immigrant to San Francisco from the Philippines, at the same time that she was learning to identify and cull “poem” from fragments of insight and expressions of angst she’d written in her notebooks.

Maiana Minahal’s second collection of poems, Legend Sondayo (Civil Defense Poetry, 2009) has just been released. Maiana discussed how she wove an autobiographical poetic voice into this folktale of the woman who battled the wind goddess who stole her husband. Subverting the story, Maiana brings it into a queer and urban, contemporary North American context. She describes this as writing from a place of absence or loss of home culture. I hear her creating a new culture or a new place to anchor.

Aimee Suzara spoke of objects or artifacts and complicating their contexts in poetry, how we communicate what is at stake when we write. What is the difference, for example, of writing about a rose, just because that is what poets do, versus writing a poetic voice of one living in a state of war encountering a rose? What is the difference between a poet writing about food which is all around us, versus writing a poetic voice of one who has known hunger or starvation.

Elsa Valmidiano spoke of her advocacy work as a post-abortion counselor, and how this is a topic Filipino Americans of all age brackets cannot publicly discuss. It is her advocacy work here, and that the subject is so taboo for our community which has informed some of her poetic voices. She described how she concentrates on one moment in that experience, and writes that one moment with compassion and humanness.

Irene Faye Duller, in her third of three panel presentations, retracted her opportunity to present as we were running over time, and generously gave her space to Niki Escobar.

Niki Escobar discussed how she always begins with a question, how nothing in our dailiness should be taken for granted. She then went on to discuss gender and poetic voice, mentors and colleagues who are dismissive “girly” or “feminine” poetic voices, and the historical, cultural need for the poet speak clearly, defiantly as a woman, as  Pinay.

Rick Rocamora, the social documentary photographer, well-known for his  photographs of the Filipino WWII veterans among many others, was in attendance, and he told us that his interest in hearing us speak comes from his belief in the importance of our creating documentation of our presence in America. He stressed our own documentation of our own lives and histories, versus others coming from the outside and telling the story of who they think we are.

Estella Habal, who is the author of San Francisco’s International Hotel (Temple University Press, 2007) was also in attendance. She is a professor at SJSU, and wanted to know how to effectively integrate poetry into her courses on Filipino American culture and history. There was unfortunately no time to ask her why she believed this was important, though I suspect this has to do with the same reasons why interdisciplinary approaches are taken in Ethnic Studies courses. So many of our social and political movements are documented in our art.

So this is some of the exciting stuff happening in Filipina American poetry, and as our discussions were bursting at the seams and out of our allotted time slot, I believe more conversations should happen. Now it’s about creating that space for further conversations to happen. I believe we had a substantial, concrete, and constructive discussion on poetic craft and access.

13 Responses to “Poetics: Various”


  1. 1 Brian Dean Bollman 28 June 2009 at 2:43 pm

    R.E. Billy Collins comment:

    I have to admit (though I feel bad saying it) that i get bored by an awful lot of poetry that I read, including much of what I’ve read by Billy Collins. This doesn’t mean it’s bad poetry, it just means that it’s not my thing. The 13% that Collins likes is probably quite different than the13% that’s at the top of my list. In my experience, contemporary poetry is extremely diverse–this is a good thing, it means that there is something for everyone. Collins appears to believe that somehow he knows better than the rest of us what is good poetry, and we all should be conforming to his tastes. (I agree with you, “fuck that, fuck him”.) But this is nothing new, poets have always put down other people’s poetry, he’s just using a new argument to do it (i.e. if more poets wrote the way he thinks they should, poetry would be more popular).

  2. 2 Ross Brighton 28 June 2009 at 9:08 pm

    Thanks for the “accessibility is culturally (and might I add subculturally) subjective” comment – that is necessary. And I, too, am sick of people “demeaning audiences and readers with assumptions of their stupidity and dullness” – It happens in the visual arts too. I’m working on a piece in the same vein, utilising Jed Rasula’s work on poetics and information theory, arguing that transparency in poetry is a category mistake, as the genre, consciously or otherwise, privileges “noise in the channel”, be it through rhyme, ambiguity, metaphor etc etc.

    Comments like this are not only patronising, and essentialist, but also show a serious lack of thought about what poetry does, and its relationship to the linguistic medium.

  3. 3 c st p 29 June 2009 at 11:03 am

    Hater, Lightning.

  4. 5 Barbara Jane Reyes 29 June 2009 at 11:27 am

    Ugh, WordPress just lost my well-thought out comment so I will try this again.

    Brian, that’s exactly what irritated me about Collins: “if poets wrote like me, then American poetry would be so great.”

    I agree with you that there is a LOT of American poetry that I don’t find myself particularly moved by. Most of the time I attribute this to my own preference for subject matter, poetic voices and tone, or aesthetics, versus stating that a staggering majority of it need not be read. I just think it’s more helpful to say what about certain work does not move me and why. And I think it’s most helpful to say this is the work that I find most interesting and exciting, this is the work I most highly recommend for reasons which I will try to articulate.

    Ross, you are right that this talking down occurs in other arts as well. I just think that if it’s important to the artist to connect with his/her audience then s/he will do her best to open ways into the art via the work itself, or via readings, performances, talks, et al.

  5. 8 Lee H. 30 June 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Okay, okay, I’ll expand (if I must). I don’t usually use “lol,” but I really did laugh at Craig’s comment “Hater, Lightning,” playing on the title of one of Collins’ books, which takes its title “Picnic, Lightning” from Nabokov’s Lolita. I won’t defend Collins here, but I will say that “Picnic, Lightning” was an important early entry point for me into poetry. It was at a time where I was reading a lot of literary magazines, and writers like Collins, Bob Hicok, and Virgil Suarez seeemed to be in every other magazine. I’ve never bought a Hicok book, and I don’t read much Collins anymore, but I still admire Collins’ poem “The Many Faces of Jazz” and many others. Of course, his comments on the 87% clearly reflect his preferences in poetry. For more on these and identifying some of his 13%, one could look to the two editions of Poetry 180, which gather poems he admires and how they relate to education.

    I’ve never admired a myopic view of poetry—what it is, what is good, what is accessible—and so I appreciate your post, Barbara. So much of it is political—what gets anthologized, the (few) degrees of separation from the editors and the “contributors, what is taught in universities, or even that it needs to be taught in universities at all. I will say that there is some poetry I just cannot read nor do I have much interest in (and no, I won’t mention the poets here)—but for the most part, I cast a wide net when it comes to “good poetry” and what is accessible. What’s accessible? I’d say around 95%. What’s good? That’s a long conversation for another time, probably best over coffee, fresh fruit, or a massive omelette.

    • 9 Barbara Jane Reyes 1 July 2009 at 9:03 am

      Hey, thanks Lee, for your comment. I am wondering how to strike a balance between saying what we think is good and what is not, versus stating that a huge percentage of it is not worth reading.

      Much like you and others who’ve commented here, we do have certain kinds of poetry we like or enjoy or prefer, and then there’s that other huge percentage of poetry we just don’t. I think this is fine. I just don’t know that it’s cool to be discouraging. I keep thinking of the kinds of discouraging comments I’ve received along the way, from different authority figures, and if I were to have listened to them, I would have never tried to write a book in the first place.

      So I am kind of stuck, because I really do believe in supporting my colleagues and community members whose work I really do admire, and I believe very strongly in encouraging and mentoring emerging writers. I am pretty selective though, given my limited time and energy, and my selectiveness is based on having read their developing work over time, and that they have demonstrated to me their level of seriousness and commitment. i.e. anybody coming at me telling me they are a poet, but have very little work to show for it, or are still reading the same poems they’ve been reading for the past many years, or whose writing appears not to have developed or grown over time, or who are resistant or closed to criticism, editing and revision, I’m not going to expend much of my energy to support.

      I am getting over long here, but this reminds me of my couple of years as a first round reader for the State (Commonwealth?) of Massachusetts Arts Council. Seeing how poetry mss are presented can be telling: there were some mss which were printed out from very old WP programs (that we used when we were undergrad underclassmen many many years ago), and Xeroxed for the 1000th time, fuzzy, margins off, etc. This tells me that a poet has neither written new stuff in many years, nor has s/he bothered to edit or revise, or s/he is relying on the decade(s) old work in order to bag some prize $. Anyway, yes on the coffee, fresh fruit, and a massive omelette. Let me know when you are back in the Bay!

  6. 10 Sam Rasnake 1 July 2009 at 7:11 am

    Fascinating, Barbara Jane. And thanks for posting this. The article and the discussion here did make want to blog a bit about it today.

    Collins does seem to play it safe. He edited the 2006 edition of The Best American Poetry, and noted a point in his introduction that is similar to the Norman Transcript comments. Here’s the passage:

    “How many poems see the light of print in America each year? To find the answer simply multiply the number of literary magazines in the United States by the average number of poems per issue times the number of issues each year. That’s right: too many. It’s enough to make you wish the NEA would award grants to poets for not writing, like the ones farmers get for not growing crops. And partially because of this glut of publications, there is also a quality problem to be faced. A friend of mine announced one night over dinner that 83 percent of contemporary poetry is not worth reading. Somehow, that number, pulled out of the air, continues to be deadly accurate. I should add quickly that I count myself among those whose lives would be sorely impoverished without the dependable availability of the remaining 17 percent.”

    All of this makes me want to question my own responses – good and bad – relative to poetry and poets. What I like, what I don’t like.

    • 11 Barbara Jane Reyes 1 July 2009 at 9:15 am

      Hi Sam, thanks for the comment and link. Since I went over long in response to Lee’s comment (my response I think addresses some of your concerns), let me quickly say a couple of things re: “too many.”

      On one of the poet blogs I follow, Guy LeCharles Gonzalez’s Loudpoet. com:

      http://loudpoet.com/2009/06/17/crowds-vs-gatekeepers-not-a-zero-sum-game/

      He has a great post and comment stream re: curators and “gatekeepers,” given the deluges of writing, etc that the internet and POD/technology has enabled. This is another entire post for me, but I do believe in conscientious and even shrewd curating. I think Collins feeds into that extreme reaction verging on hysteria re: this apparent democratizing of lit/poetry. I am not a fan of anything goes simply because it can. I do believe in being discerning, reading with a critical eye and ear. But again, I think Collins’s statement shows me that he’s polarized the discussion.

      But you are right, as many of the commenters have stated here: about examining and/or articulating clearly what we like and why, whose work we support and why.

  7. 12 c st p 1 July 2009 at 6:05 pm

    haha i will never succumb to insightfulness! the best thing about the sentence ‘picnic, lightning’ is that’s how the character describes how someone is killed! collins will get his lightning bolt! as will all poetry haters.

    and i do apologize for the unsightfulness of my comment, but to be honest (dont be offended) i KNOW for certain that 83% of your blogposts are not worth commenting on!!!

    jk
    xo
    cs
    kit
    ttyl
    hilee!

  8. 13 Curtis Faville 5 July 2009 at 7:09 am

    Ms. Reyes:

    I agree with you wholeheartedly about Collins, but I disagree about your reasons and defenses against his implied agenda.

    The primary thrust of Collins’s argument is that people are stupid–they need help. Collins privileges the poet as the “genius” who is able to “interpret” complex experience, reprocess it and make it “accessible” (as you say) to the common herd.

    You say “‘Accessibility’ is subjective to certain populations and communities. If the poetry written in our communities falls under the Collins’s category of not transparent poetry, then we are counted among the 87% of poetry he believes is not worth reading.” Collins isn’t distinguishing according to “communities” or ethnic groups or race etc. That is your spin on it, and it makes you sound defensive and petulant.

    It isn’t that Collins fails to respect minorities, and their cultures, and their languages and literatures; his contempt is much broader and more wounding. His is not simply a “white” but a philistine attitude towards society.

    Collins isn’t a poet, but an entertainer. He’s a stand-up, corn-pone phony selling snake-oil to gullible minds.

    The best way to respond to such people is to ignore them. Parody is also useful–but you have to be smarter than the model. Laughter is useful.


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The above image, "Octo in my mind," is by Dino Ignacio.

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Barbara Jane Reyes blogs here on poetics, culture, and community.

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